Curse

Kamatsu · Mar 19, 2010, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Hi,

Due to the fact that my current computer is somewhat old and unreliable now, I've decided into looking into buying a new computer. And when I say unreliable I mean - "Don't turn the comp off!! It won't restart!".. I generally have to pull it apart and put it back together whenever I want to add/change anything.. lolz

Current specs for interest/comparison:

Motherboard: MSI K9N4 Ultra
Ram: 2 GB non-brand memory
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 DualCore 3600+
Video: nVidia 7600GT (It was a XFX 7950GT.. till my computer ate it.. lolz)
HD: 360 GB (had 500 GB, it died, currently waiting for 1 TB Seagate I bought to be replaced as it died within 2 weeks of buying.. lolz)
OS: Windows XP Home

So it's fairly out of date, struggles to play modern games and has reliability issues.. so time for a new comp.

Buying from: http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php
It has cheap prices, delivers to where I live and recommended to me by someone more computer geeky/knowledgeable than me.. lolz

Here's What's been recommended as a pretty decent gaming rig that will cost $1,678 and be able to run all games well, and continue to run games ok for a few years.. And I am on a budget.. around ~$2,000 max is what I'm looking to spend

CPU: Intel Core i7 920 (Here)
Case: Antec Sic Hundred (Here)
PSU: OCZ Fatality Champion 700W SLI (Here)
Ram: OCZ PC3-12800 Platinum 3x2GB OCZ3P1600LV6GK (Here)
Video: XFX Radeon HD5850 XXX edition (Here)
MB: EVGA X58 SLI Micro mATX (Here)
Hard Disk: SamSung SpinPoint F3 1TB HD103SJ (Here)

I'm considering upping some of the options, but wondering if they are worth it..

CPU - would I gain much more by going to the i7 930? The 930 is only $40 more than the 920 tbh.. so something I'm considering. I don't really know the spec differences..

Video Card - I could go up to the 5870, but the price range for these is $500-580 (of those in stock atm) vs $399.. there is also the HD5850 Black Edition for $419.. Is the Black Edition an upgrade to the XXX edition?

Hard Disk - I'm not sure why I actually bought a SeaGate HD.. I have always had problems with them when I buy them. lolz.

My friend recommended a SSD.. but they are very expensive for limited space. so for me, being able to have 1-2 1TB drives is more important than having a muvh smaller drive that can read & write a lot faster (thus SSd is better for games..)

Cooling - The case suggested comes with 2 120mm cooling fans on it with space for 3 more 120mm fan's.. would it be worth my while buying 3 extra 120mm fans and installing them.. or just 2 extra fans? or just leave it at default?..

Can get a 4 pack of 120mm fans for $25.. lolz (Here) .. or can buy individually other fans if they are superior.. the individual ones are $20-28.. so obviously buying 2-3 of them adds ~$40-80

It was also suggested I could consider water cooling. but tbh, I'm a bit concerned about that. lolz I've never used water cooling before, so not really sure how it works or how to setup.. so would need something simple and easy to install and maintain. lolz

It was suggested something like the Corsair Hydro-Series H50 CPU cooler would work wonders for a water cooling novice like me.. it is an added $129 however..

Now the only thing not on this shopping list is a monitor (apart from OS.. don't mind about that). I currently have a BenQ FP71G+ 17" monitor. This monitor is working without a problem right now. I would like to replace it with a better monitor... but not really sure what would make a good upgrade to this.. as well as one that's affordable.

Most of the monitors are $200-300, and with my limited budget.. if I get other extra's (like better cpu, cooling fans, etc).. buying a new monitor could easily put me over my limit. But it's still something i'll consider.. TBH I really hate my piddly little screen and really, really want something bigger and better. lolz

So if anyone could suggest a decent/good 19-22 inch normal/wide-screen lcd monitor that will be good to play games on.. suggest away (but please.. no silly $400-500+ monitor's.. lolz)

Well, that's it for now. Can't think of anything (though I'm sure I'm missing something.. lolz). Thanx in advance.

Lourens · Mar 19, 2010, 09:06 AM // 09:06

if your going to spend 2000 $ why dont you wait for GTX480 to be released and buy that one

Kamatsu · Mar 19, 2010, 09:48 AM // 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lourens

if your going to spend 2000 $ why dont you wait for GTX480 to be released and buy that one

Because newly released video cards cost $1,000-2,000+ here at release.. (and your looking at closer to $2,000 than $1k). Not to mention how unreliable my computer is... so I have limited budget.. and limited life on this computer.

So I see little point in waiting for this release.. when it will either blow my budget (which won't happen as I just won't buy it then) or force me to scrimp on other parts..

and scrimping on cpu/ram/mb/etc to go with cheaper options.. is just going to limit me and effect game performance imo - as cheaper/more-affordable options with $1-1.5K gone will more than likely be on the lower end of the performance scale - something I really don't want to do.. it's what I've done previously due to budgetary issue's.. always had lower end computers that fall off the scale within months.. lolz

Lourens · Mar 19, 2010, 10:20 AM // 10:20

Nvidea stated that the GTX480 would be 499$

Kamatsu · Mar 19, 2010, 10:40 AM // 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lourens

Nvidea stated that the GTX480 would be 499$

That's $499 US, which equates to ~$580Au..

So yes, not as bad as the $1,000-2,000 that has been the norm in the past for new releases. It still stretch's my budget - $399 vs ~$580.. when considering other possible upgrades.. and considering a quick check indicates the performance gain isn't as much as one would think/hope from something that costs ~$180 more..

and release factor? no set/known date, just estimates... ~26th March... for nVidia, and early April for other manufacturer's. and thats US release.. so would have to wait till April at the least...

BTW.. if you go by the Euro released/est pricing.. the card will cost more along the lines of ~$600-700..

Edit - I just realized this post (and my last one?) were pretty snappish of me.. esp since you are just trying to help out like I asked for. So I do apologize.

It has been awhile since I've actually shopped for "latest" gear, and am used to the old ways.. where near stuff was always hellish expensive. Like right now I know I couldn't afford the HD5970's.. as they ARE $1,000+... lolz

I'll keep what you say in mind, as the release isn't that far away.. and the prices might be affordable. I still need to consider my total budget and all the components I want/need to get.. but thank you for pointing that nVidia card out.. I wasn't aware it was just to come out, or it's pricing.

Elder III · Mar 19, 2010, 11:03 AM // 11:03

I don't have time to put together a parts list and check Aussi prices etc before work this morning, but here are a few quick thoughts for you.

If gaming is your primary concern then you should consider either an AMD Phenom II Quad Core system or an Intel i5 system - either one will be less than a i7 920 and perform just as well in games too. (AMD is also a less expensive platform to build with in most cases). By going with one of those options you would only need 4gb of RAM vs 6 since you will be using dual channel instead of triple channel (no game needs more than 4gb right now and it's an easy as pie upgrade to 8gb in a couple yrs when you need it). the HD5850 will handle any game you throw at it now or in the forseeable future; esp. since you don't plan to get anything more than a 19-22" monitor (and therefore likely only gaming at 1680 x 1050 res). SSDs are nice but toatally not worth the money right now. Liquid cooling is a waste of time and money unless you plan to do extreme overclocking or can afford to spend hundreds just for a cool looking system... I would get the extra fans, try to draw cool air in on the front and sides and blast it out at the back, top - that usually works the best, but some cases and setups are different, so experiment with it.

Kamatsu · Mar 20, 2010, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Regarding i5's instead of i7's - yes, they are around $100 or so cheaper & the phenom II's are around $150 or so cheaper as well. How do they stack up performance wise however?

While they might be ok/good for games now, wouldn't spending a bit more on a better cpu increase the life-span of the system for performance? I tend not to buy computers often, and only when I "need" to.. lolz. So do want something that will likely play games ok'ish in 2-3 years (but knowing how technology moves.. that's likely as pipe-dream.. lolz)

Cooling - general consensus I'm getting here & elsewhere is to stick to stock/fan coolers unless overclocking.. and tbh, I'd only be doing minor/small OC'ing if I did any.. so probably just going to pass on the water-cooling and just grab the extra case fans.

SSD HD - I agree, too expensive.. if I had money to throw away I'd consider em.. lolz But my name is not Rockafella.. lolz

I appreciate the input, both of you

Lord Sojar · Mar 20, 2010, 01:54 AM // 01:54

The only i5 that can match an i7 in performance it the Corei5 750, since it is basically a Corei7 860 without Hyperthreading.

If you buy that or any of the Socket 1156 Corei7's which are significantly cheaper compared to the Socket 1366 Corei7's, they will easily last 2-3 years for gaming, probably more like 4-5 years without issue.

Stock cooling is generally a-ok for little to no overclocking (200MHz max).

SSD's are generally too expensive still. If you plan to spend money on one, wait until late this year or early 2011 when 25nm NAND is in full swing.

Go with this CPU:
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?...ducts_id=12404

This mobo (Since it has SATA 6.0Gbps and USB 3.0 for future upgrades):
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?...ducts_id=12937

This RAM:
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?...ducts_id=12495

If you can, wait for the GTX470 to launch and decide if you want one of those or an HD5850. The HD5850 is currently very overpriced, and probably not worth its weight in gold at current pricing. You only have 7 days until the new nVidia cards launch.

Kamatsu · Mar 20, 2010, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Thanx Rahja. It's something to consider. Also considering what Elder III said about switching to AMD..

Switching to AMD components makes a huge difference in price. I kept the same case, HD & video card.. and the total price is $1,393.. vs $1,678 with Intel. That easily lets me buy a monitor.. and maybe even spend more money on a bigger/better video card..

Here's the changed list, taking advise from Brett & elsewhere

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition - $199
Case: Antec Six Hundred - $119
PSU: Corsair HX-850 Power Supply CMPSU-850HX - $230
Ram: OCZ PC3-10666 Platinum 2x2GB OCZ3P1333LV4GK - $159
Video: XFX Radeon HD5850 XXX edition - $379
MB: Gigabyte GA-890GPA-UD3H Motherboard - $199
Hard Disk: SamSung SpinPoint F3 1TB HD103SJ - $108

What I was thinking.. was switching the CPU & Video.. since I have a bigger price leeway now..

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition - $229
Video: Gigabyte Radeon HD5870 [R587UD-1GB] - $529

That only increases the total cost to $1,573. which should hopefully leave me with enough money for a new monitor on top of that... And from what I can see of the AMD cpu's.. the 2nd option is the best AMD available at that store..and the HD5870 should be superior to the HD5850 (and the upcoming nVidia card?).

I am assuming that the Phenon II X4 965 is superior to the 955.. but knowing me, I'm wrong. lolz. the 965 is only an extra $30 over the 955.. so if it is a superior cpu and won't cause issue's with the other parts, I'm willing to spend the money..

From what I've read of the new nVidia ... it's competing vs the HD5850's.. not the HD5870's (which is now in my price range).. but again, I could be wrong.

I can't afford the next step up on the HD's, which is the HD5970 as the cheapest 1 is $1,099.. way outside my price range.

Regarding monitors.. Here's a few thoughts..

Samsung P2350 23in Widescreen LCD Monitor - $269
AOC 2436VWH 23.6in Widescreen LCD Monitor - $209
LG W2253TQ-PF 21.5 Inch Widescreen LCD Monitor - $229
BenQ G2420HD 24in Widescreen LCD Monitor $239

Truth be told, looking at that list myself - the Samsung I listed 1st seems the best to me. Seems to be the only 1 stating full 2ms response time @ HD (rather than Gray-to-Gray (I believe thats what GTG stands for) of other monitors). But I might be wrong about this.

Elder III · Mar 20, 2010, 10:37 AM // 10:37

Samsung probably makes the best monitors on the market, and that seems like a good price for one, even by the (generally) cheaper US pricing.

I would personally go for the AMD setup, either CPU is fine, both are Black Edition and can be overclocked with the utmost ease - you can hit 3.8 ghz on stock voltage with ease if you choose too. When it comes to gaming the difference between them and the i5s is not large enough to be worth the price imo. You can't go wrong either way - I'd make sure I got a CrossfireX compatible motherboard - plan your pc to be upgradeable for the cheapest price in the future, rather than buying all brand new every 3 yrs.

Kamatsu · Mar 20, 2010, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Well, the AMD setup I posted has it all then

lolz

Looking at the write-up of the MB, it's CrossfireX compatible. In fact reading up on it - it supports both CrossfireX with 2 video cards, or 1 video card and the onboard video that's on the MB... No idea how good that would be as onboard video gpu's aren't usually all that good..

The MB also supports the Phenom II X6 cpu's as well... well, according to it's write-up it does or should.

This means in a few years, could always grab a better cpu, upgrade from 4gb to 8gb ram and grab another video card for sli/crossfirex.. and be back in the game and not have to buy a whole new system...

The amd does attract me - I would really love a new monitor. lolz. and it's the only way thats going to happen.. lolz. And truth be told, I've never been a fan of paying intel's higher prices for their cpu's anyways.. lolz

Jumping Is Uselss · Mar 20, 2010, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Why do you need 8gb of ram?

Dam the 5850 is already $300+, yikes! Im glad I bought mine a month ago for $260.

I don't know about your budget or how much you are willing to spend on a gpu, but from what I understand on the XFX Radeon HD5850 XXX edition it is just an OC 5850.

5850 are very easy to OC, I currently have mine OC to XXX edition settings. Find a cheaper 5850 and overclock it with a 3rd party software (MSI Afterburner).

Kamatsu · Mar 20, 2010, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Don't need 8gb of ram, that was mentioned as a possible "upgrade" down the track that I could do. Planning on starting with 4 gb if I go with amd..

hopefully priced might drop in the next week.. when nVidia finally unveils and releases their new cards.. maybe not. Who really knows. lolz

The thing is, that XXX edition is on sale.. and the "factory default" cards are $369-379 (HIS & Sapphire) .. vs $379 for 2 different OC'ed versions (XFX & Gigabyte). So won;t actually "save" any money at this time by sticking with factory cards and OC'ing myself..

Though it seems to be said that factory oc'ed cards aren't as good as factory default cards manually oc'ed... not sure why though.

I am considering 5850, as I can then in ~1 year buy another 5850 to CFX them.. and have better performance than a 5870.. and it'll only cost me an extra ~$210 over the price of a 5870... vs buying a 5870.. and trying to CFX it later.. assuming prices stay around same level - ~$740 for 5850 CFX vs ~$1,060 for 5870 CFX.

Right now, budget only allows 1 card.. and I am looking for possibly minor upgrades later, but don't want to spend a fortune on upgrades.. (so 5850 CFX is more appealing..)

Lord Sojar · Mar 22, 2010, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Have fun with Crossfire... yuck. Driver support for Crossfire is dismal. ATi just got their single card drivers fixed up enough to make things work in most situations, but Crossfire is a long ways from being good enough considering the extra money.... steer clear.

Kamatsu · Mar 22, 2010, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Have fun with Crossfire... yuck. Driver support for Crossfire is dismal. ATi just got their single card drivers fixed up enough to make things work in most situations, but Crossfire is a long ways from being good enough considering the extra money.... steer clear.

Hmm.. and you wouldn't be a bit biased there Rahja now would you?

Funny thing is, reading reviews and looking at benchmarks - the current ATI cards beat the current nVidia cards in both single card setups and SLI/CFX setup's. And just about every review I've read spoke at how much better the drivers for ATI were now.. and shows the ATI cards were better at higher resolution with AA and AF enabled vs nVidia cards.

But I'm waiting to see what the new nVidia cards are like, and priced. Seeing as my computer is still alive.. and since I should find out more in 4-7 days (from what I've read).. I think I'd be stupid to buy now.. and possibly regret it (either cuz the nvidia are affordable and superior, or because they aren't affordable but push the prices on the ATI cards down.. lolz)

I haven't ruled anything out right now. I might still go with a Intel cpu/mb.. or go with an amd solution.. in the end it depends on price and what will give me best bang for my buck. I do appreciate all the input so far

Elder III · Mar 22, 2010, 01:50 PM // 13:50

good choice - it's always wise to go with the best bang for the buck and at the very least the new NVIDIA cards should drive the prices down on the ATI offerings... and some of the last generation video cards from both sides as well.

Lord Sojar · Mar 22, 2010, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamatsu

Hmm.. and you wouldn't be a bit biased there Rahja now would you?

Funny thing is, reading reviews and looking at benchmarks - the current ATI cards beat the current nVidia cards in both single card setups and SLI/CFX setup's. And just about every review I've read spoke at how much better the drivers for ATI were now.. and shows the ATI cards were better at higher resolution with AA and AF enabled vs nVidia cards.

I'm not being biased........ I own and am currently using an HD5870. I no longer work for nVidia, and am not obligated to coddle them or speak highly of them provided what I say isn't slander/libel.

The drivers are still sub par, and their current Crossfire drivers for the 5000 series are absolutely god awful. Look around; I don't know what reviews you've been reading, but they aren't accurate. Crossfire doesn't scale nearly as well as SLi, it never has. The current single card drivers are decent, but the Crossfire implementation is god awful.

Actually, ATi struggles a bit more with AF, but that is irrelevant considering AF maxes at 16x, and that doesn't tax any gaming grade card enough to be concerned with. The new anti aliasing technology on the 5000 series helps them have a slight edge over the current gen nVidia cards, but that is to be expected considering the changes to their AA engines.

Kamatsu · Mar 23, 2010, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

I'm not being biased........ I own and am currently using an HD5870. I no longer work for nVidia, and am not obligated to coddle them or speak highly of them provided what I say isn't slander/libel.

Interesting. Hope you didn't take my comment offensively.. (is this time for you to point to your user title? lolz)

So you have a HD5870 rather than nVidia card.. you waiting to see what nVidia are going to release and the possibly going for it? Or just going to stick with what you have for awhile? Just curious

Quote:

The drivers are still sub par, and their current Crossfire drivers for the 5000 series are absolutely god awful. Look around; I don't know what reviews you've been reading, but they aren't accurate. Crossfire doesn't scale nearly as well as SLi, it never has. The current single card drivers are decent, but the Crossfire implementation is god awful.

So then CFX 5870's whooping SLI nVidia's is purely because the cards can put out more grunt then?

I was reading reviews of the 5850 & 5870 at Toms Hardware, and the benchmarks they posted as well as the commentary seems to suggest CFX was much improved.. and that ATI's handling of AA was superior to nVidia's.

alth admittidly I wasn't looking at how the performance scaled - ie how much did CFX improve performance over individual cards.. at least that's what I believe your inferring to.. that even because CFX 5870's do beat sli nvidia cards.. sli nvidia cards give better performance gain over individual cards.. or am i completely missing the boat? lolz

Quote:

Actually, ATi struggles a bit more with AF, but that is irrelevant considering AF maxes at 16x, and that doesn't tax any gaming grade card enough to be concerned with.

With my current turd system I can't run any AA or AF without the system boing blah.. lolz Guess that's a fault of old tech cards and unreliable system issue's more than anything.. lolz

Elder III - one can only hope. lolz

Ariena Najea · Mar 23, 2010, 06:54 AM // 06:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elder III

Samsung probably makes the best monitors on the market, and that seems like a good price for one, even by the (generally) cheaper US pricing.

While one of the more expensive brands (at least here in the US), Samsung is the absolute best you can get for monitors and televisions. I own a 24" SyncMaster T240HD which cost almost 2x the price of a comparable Acer at the time ($290 versus $160), and don't regret it for an instant. If you want quality, go Samsung. If you are getting the machine mostly for gaming, you might want to consider getting a monitor that has 16:10 ratio instead of 16:9. You'll get more vertical viewing area, and they generally aren't that much more expensive.

On a side note for ATi, Catalyst Control Center is awful. I spent hours trying to figure out how to allow 4:3 ratio programs to scale in Full Screen (with black bars on the side) and gave up after searching the official AMD/ATi forums to no avail. The menus are confusing, the settings don't work as you think they would, and the interface seems to change significantly every time a small update turning chaos into insanity. My XFX 4890 XXX blows up everything at it, but if you occasionally player older games, or try and do anything fancy, make sure you have your local suicide hotline on hold.

Lourens · Mar 23, 2010, 08:30 AM // 08:30

I heard theres an amd hexacore @3.2ghz coming out for only $299 could wait for that